Aqua2o
08-20-2009, 15:42
Remember how New York City looked after the attacks? White dust on everyone, everywhere on everything. Well, Flourite will do the exact same thing to your aquarium, except it’s not a white dust but crap brown.
I have not had a single death or problem with any aquariums for close to 3 years besides some hair algae. Im familiar with Diana Walstad /Takashi Amano and their recommendations. At first I was not too concerned about the cloudiness as it stated on the horribly misleading directions
"Slight initial cloudiness is normal and will clear rapidly (2–12 hours)." Slight is misleading and rapidly is ridiculous.
Well it has been 144hrs (6days) and although the brown cloud has partially settled on the top half of the aquarium, the bottom half still looks like lake Langano in Ethiopia. And the rest of the water still has a very milky appearance to it.
Following the directions on the package the use of Seachem Flourite, wasted $14 of water, killed as of today, 5 of my cardinal tetras ($25), which are the first deaths in 2yrs 9months, ruined the color of all my plants by covering them in dust ($45+) which must be brushed off since it does not rinse off, and doing so damages the leaves. Most importantly however the use of Flourite wasted about 6 hrs of my life (priceless but if you paid, worth about 12 an hr to me = $72). This is not mentioning all the frustration esp when losing fish that you have had for 3 years.
Total cost of using Flourite THUS FAR = $151. This does not include the $60 I paid for the substrate.
Im guessing if anyone is reading this for help with their Flourite, it is most likely too late for you, because you, like I, read the directions and took them for what they are worth. Which is pretty much nothing. Im writing this for all the people who went through the experience I did and for all the people who will inevitably have the same experience after using Flourite for the first time.
I being a satcom engineer not an aquarist, spent a couple of hours reading about Seachem and Flourite. Based upon my horrible experience using this substrate and after reading online I found numerous people with the exact same experience using Flourite and the same frustrations. I believe Seachem probably uses a couple of squirts from a spray bottle to wash their 'mined' flourite by the tonne. Placing flourite in a bag and brutally crushing it, does not produce even a remote amount of residual dust as is in the "PRE-WASHED" gravel contains. Squirt bottle anyone? Many users recommend using Eco-Complete which is 'cut and dump'.
So the Golden question is WHY? Why would SeaChem neglect to mention that without rinsing the substrate, your mature, beautiful and established aquarium will be completely ruined?
I think I know why…… It’s not reasonable to say Seachem simply doesnt know how horribly written the directions are because the directions are not horrible – to seachem. I believe they have been tailored exactly as is, designed only to reveal partial insight into the product. Again Why would SeaChem do this?
Well for 1) I suspect, they hardly rinse it to save on time, water, transportation and production costs.
2) Truly “washing” as is stated on the bag not “rinsing” the product would wash away volume and weight, adding to the cost of production.
I weighed my bag of 20lb Flourite. After a real wash which will take about 1hr 15mins per bag, my 20lb bag completely drained, only weighed 17.8lbs. That is a loss of 11% of your product after rinsing.
- That right off the bat is a 10+% savings for SeaChem….
3) So they can sell you Clarity and other filters etc to clear up the problem
4) Because the bottom line is profit.
What did i do to remedy this horrible experience? I took out the gravel washed it and weighed it and will be returning it. I cannot say the substrate itself is bad because I never used it, but I did use the instructions that it came with and they suck.
There are numerous companies out there that provide equally decent products for the same price or slightly more. Because Seachem does not provide reliable directions to their products, I cannot take a chance of ruining any other established aquariums, killing my fish, wasting my money, all due to poor instructions.
3 magic words that can and could have provided an infinetely better customer experience with Seachems Flourite: RINSE RINSE RINSE!!!! However this may affect the bottom line.
Because if you dont rinse, you might as well use your aquarium for a toilet, or dont plan on having clear water for weeks, or ever rearranging any plants or rearranging anything, because after the 2wks you waited for it to clear, you kick up all that dust all over again trying to do anything. I read online that one aquarist stated it took "3 years" until there was minimal kickup dust.
And this is from 2005 -
http://badmanstropicalfish.com/discus/messages/18/34115.html?1107389035
Questions:
1. Does the use of Flourite that has not been washed extensively increase the TDS levels of the water to horrible levels?
2. Who does quality control and market research - can i get some of the stuff they are smoking?
3. Who wrote the copy write for Flourite? Please inform me, so i can have my 6th grade cousin give him a lesson in writing relevant information.
4. Who approved such horrible copy write and are they a share holder?
5. Dont you have somone that tracks online experience with your products, who can target and minimize concerns and frustrations thus avoiding people who rant on like i do. I still haven’t gone to many other forums/blogs or posted youtube videos. If seachem wont bother saving people like myself all the trouble, someone else should..
Thanks to Flourite I have had my first deaths in 2 years and 9 months. Surely one claim will be that nothing is leeched in the water to kill fish. How about stress. How about the fish being blind or how about the dust affecting their sense of smell. Or how about them simply losing the will to live since they probably think they've already died and gone to aqauarium hell...
P.s. Also having to wait 3 days for this account to be approved so i can ask, what should i do about the cloudyness, did not help your case at all. Most military forums where discussions take place on some what classified details dont require a waiting period to post, but Seachem needs to take a clear look into themselves or is the water simply to muddy because the used fluorite?
From SeaChems own site by one of their customers
“It should state, "Rinse the living ka ka out of this, or you will experience deja vu!" ;) “
http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=2156&highlight=%22rinse&page=2
I hope someone will think before using Flourite and Especially without rinsing the ka ka out of it. And sorry to the person who must reply to this. I know most people arent like me....Cheers
Here are just a few links to people with the same problems and only on the seachem website. This issue was evident at least by 07 yet Seachem has done nothing…
03-22-2009
1) http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?p=4915&highlight=flourite#post4915
Seachem Customer: “tank water clarity after adding the rinsed substrate is little to none. Pump has been on and off over the past couple of days trying to get the particulates to settle”
02-04-2009
2) http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?p=4554&highlight=flourite#post4554
Seachem Customer: “put about two cups of flourite in one end of the tank and buried it under the "regular" gravel. I stopped because the tank clouded terribly -- I mean, I expected it to cloud, but I had no idea it was going to be so murky.”
Partial response from tech support: “You're not alone; there are others who have experienced this as well :-) Flourite can become dusty during the shipping process; it is highly recommended that you rinse it before adding it to a tank.”
12-09-2008
3) http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=2156&highlight=flourite
Seachem Customer: “I did not rinse the Fluorite gravel good enough and the whole tank is cloudy. I cannot even see the back of the tank, and it is not settling out.”
Partial response from tech support:
“Clarity will help with the cloudiness”
Seachem Customer continued: “I have read on various forums now that several people seem to favor doing multiple (5-10...or more)washes on their bags of Fluorite until the cloudiness settles within a few seconds. Given my current situation, I would tend to agree.”
Partial response from tech support: As far as rinsing goes, the best idea is to rinse and rinse the Flourite until the water comes out almost clear.
Seachem Customer continued: “ Ok, I gave up and decide to vacuum all the water out, cleaning the gravel as much as possible in the process. I then took all the gravel back out and seperated as much of the Onyx sand as possible. I took small buckets of the gravel and rinsed them out with a hose several times until I could actually see the gravel (~8 washes). There was a layer of slimy film on the tank, heater, filter that had to be wiped down. Then I added the gravel back, and began filling it with water again. The water looks much better...still a bit cloudy, but the majority settled out as I added more water. I can finally see all the way through the tank!”
04-29-2008
4) http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?p=3778&highlight=flourite#post3778
I tried first without the extra washing of the fluorite and had everything in place waiting for plants. The night before the plants were to arrive I modified my "aquascape" plan and the particles were just too much. I emptied the tank, removed the flourite in about 15 pound increments and washed it thoroughly
Partial response from tech support:
Thank you for the follow up. Rinsing does help quite a bit.
06-13-2007
5) http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=1167&highlight=flourite
Seachem Customer : “Any suggestions? Any tips for "rinsing" the Flourite? It's so dirty and full of fine particles, and rinsing just once or twice isn't working.”
Partial response from tech support:
Probably the best way to remove residual dust is to screen it. this can be accomplished in a few different ways but the principle is the same. You can take a common screen from a window and spread your gravel out over it. Then take a hose and pour water over it until the water comes out from under the screen clean. Another suggestion is take a cover from a reptile tank. These have a fine screen and a plastic border to keep material from washing away. Yet another way to do this is to simply build your own rinsing apparatus using wood and screen. Make sure the screen is fine enough so that only dust washes though it.
Another method is by filling up a bucket halfway with your gravel, then filling the bucket with water . Stir up the gravel and pour out the water. you can also just let the bucket continue to fill with water and let it overflow. This can be don outside or in a sink.
I have not had a single death or problem with any aquariums for close to 3 years besides some hair algae. Im familiar with Diana Walstad /Takashi Amano and their recommendations. At first I was not too concerned about the cloudiness as it stated on the horribly misleading directions
"Slight initial cloudiness is normal and will clear rapidly (2–12 hours)." Slight is misleading and rapidly is ridiculous.
Well it has been 144hrs (6days) and although the brown cloud has partially settled on the top half of the aquarium, the bottom half still looks like lake Langano in Ethiopia. And the rest of the water still has a very milky appearance to it.
Following the directions on the package the use of Seachem Flourite, wasted $14 of water, killed as of today, 5 of my cardinal tetras ($25), which are the first deaths in 2yrs 9months, ruined the color of all my plants by covering them in dust ($45+) which must be brushed off since it does not rinse off, and doing so damages the leaves. Most importantly however the use of Flourite wasted about 6 hrs of my life (priceless but if you paid, worth about 12 an hr to me = $72). This is not mentioning all the frustration esp when losing fish that you have had for 3 years.
Total cost of using Flourite THUS FAR = $151. This does not include the $60 I paid for the substrate.
Im guessing if anyone is reading this for help with their Flourite, it is most likely too late for you, because you, like I, read the directions and took them for what they are worth. Which is pretty much nothing. Im writing this for all the people who went through the experience I did and for all the people who will inevitably have the same experience after using Flourite for the first time.
I being a satcom engineer not an aquarist, spent a couple of hours reading about Seachem and Flourite. Based upon my horrible experience using this substrate and after reading online I found numerous people with the exact same experience using Flourite and the same frustrations. I believe Seachem probably uses a couple of squirts from a spray bottle to wash their 'mined' flourite by the tonne. Placing flourite in a bag and brutally crushing it, does not produce even a remote amount of residual dust as is in the "PRE-WASHED" gravel contains. Squirt bottle anyone? Many users recommend using Eco-Complete which is 'cut and dump'.
So the Golden question is WHY? Why would SeaChem neglect to mention that without rinsing the substrate, your mature, beautiful and established aquarium will be completely ruined?
I think I know why…… It’s not reasonable to say Seachem simply doesnt know how horribly written the directions are because the directions are not horrible – to seachem. I believe they have been tailored exactly as is, designed only to reveal partial insight into the product. Again Why would SeaChem do this?
Well for 1) I suspect, they hardly rinse it to save on time, water, transportation and production costs.
2) Truly “washing” as is stated on the bag not “rinsing” the product would wash away volume and weight, adding to the cost of production.
I weighed my bag of 20lb Flourite. After a real wash which will take about 1hr 15mins per bag, my 20lb bag completely drained, only weighed 17.8lbs. That is a loss of 11% of your product after rinsing.
- That right off the bat is a 10+% savings for SeaChem….
3) So they can sell you Clarity and other filters etc to clear up the problem
4) Because the bottom line is profit.
What did i do to remedy this horrible experience? I took out the gravel washed it and weighed it and will be returning it. I cannot say the substrate itself is bad because I never used it, but I did use the instructions that it came with and they suck.
There are numerous companies out there that provide equally decent products for the same price or slightly more. Because Seachem does not provide reliable directions to their products, I cannot take a chance of ruining any other established aquariums, killing my fish, wasting my money, all due to poor instructions.
3 magic words that can and could have provided an infinetely better customer experience with Seachems Flourite: RINSE RINSE RINSE!!!! However this may affect the bottom line.
Because if you dont rinse, you might as well use your aquarium for a toilet, or dont plan on having clear water for weeks, or ever rearranging any plants or rearranging anything, because after the 2wks you waited for it to clear, you kick up all that dust all over again trying to do anything. I read online that one aquarist stated it took "3 years" until there was minimal kickup dust.
And this is from 2005 -
http://badmanstropicalfish.com/discus/messages/18/34115.html?1107389035
Questions:
1. Does the use of Flourite that has not been washed extensively increase the TDS levels of the water to horrible levels?
2. Who does quality control and market research - can i get some of the stuff they are smoking?
3. Who wrote the copy write for Flourite? Please inform me, so i can have my 6th grade cousin give him a lesson in writing relevant information.
4. Who approved such horrible copy write and are they a share holder?
5. Dont you have somone that tracks online experience with your products, who can target and minimize concerns and frustrations thus avoiding people who rant on like i do. I still haven’t gone to many other forums/blogs or posted youtube videos. If seachem wont bother saving people like myself all the trouble, someone else should..
Thanks to Flourite I have had my first deaths in 2 years and 9 months. Surely one claim will be that nothing is leeched in the water to kill fish. How about stress. How about the fish being blind or how about the dust affecting their sense of smell. Or how about them simply losing the will to live since they probably think they've already died and gone to aqauarium hell...
P.s. Also having to wait 3 days for this account to be approved so i can ask, what should i do about the cloudyness, did not help your case at all. Most military forums where discussions take place on some what classified details dont require a waiting period to post, but Seachem needs to take a clear look into themselves or is the water simply to muddy because the used fluorite?
From SeaChems own site by one of their customers
“It should state, "Rinse the living ka ka out of this, or you will experience deja vu!" ;) “
http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=2156&highlight=%22rinse&page=2
I hope someone will think before using Flourite and Especially without rinsing the ka ka out of it. And sorry to the person who must reply to this. I know most people arent like me....Cheers
Here are just a few links to people with the same problems and only on the seachem website. This issue was evident at least by 07 yet Seachem has done nothing…
03-22-2009
1) http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?p=4915&highlight=flourite#post4915
Seachem Customer: “tank water clarity after adding the rinsed substrate is little to none. Pump has been on and off over the past couple of days trying to get the particulates to settle”
02-04-2009
2) http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?p=4554&highlight=flourite#post4554
Seachem Customer: “put about two cups of flourite in one end of the tank and buried it under the "regular" gravel. I stopped because the tank clouded terribly -- I mean, I expected it to cloud, but I had no idea it was going to be so murky.”
Partial response from tech support: “You're not alone; there are others who have experienced this as well :-) Flourite can become dusty during the shipping process; it is highly recommended that you rinse it before adding it to a tank.”
12-09-2008
3) http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=2156&highlight=flourite
Seachem Customer: “I did not rinse the Fluorite gravel good enough and the whole tank is cloudy. I cannot even see the back of the tank, and it is not settling out.”
Partial response from tech support:
“Clarity will help with the cloudiness”
Seachem Customer continued: “I have read on various forums now that several people seem to favor doing multiple (5-10...or more)washes on their bags of Fluorite until the cloudiness settles within a few seconds. Given my current situation, I would tend to agree.”
Partial response from tech support: As far as rinsing goes, the best idea is to rinse and rinse the Flourite until the water comes out almost clear.
Seachem Customer continued: “ Ok, I gave up and decide to vacuum all the water out, cleaning the gravel as much as possible in the process. I then took all the gravel back out and seperated as much of the Onyx sand as possible. I took small buckets of the gravel and rinsed them out with a hose several times until I could actually see the gravel (~8 washes). There was a layer of slimy film on the tank, heater, filter that had to be wiped down. Then I added the gravel back, and began filling it with water again. The water looks much better...still a bit cloudy, but the majority settled out as I added more water. I can finally see all the way through the tank!”
04-29-2008
4) http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?p=3778&highlight=flourite#post3778
I tried first without the extra washing of the fluorite and had everything in place waiting for plants. The night before the plants were to arrive I modified my "aquascape" plan and the particles were just too much. I emptied the tank, removed the flourite in about 15 pound increments and washed it thoroughly
Partial response from tech support:
Thank you for the follow up. Rinsing does help quite a bit.
06-13-2007
5) http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=1167&highlight=flourite
Seachem Customer : “Any suggestions? Any tips for "rinsing" the Flourite? It's so dirty and full of fine particles, and rinsing just once or twice isn't working.”
Partial response from tech support:
Probably the best way to remove residual dust is to screen it. this can be accomplished in a few different ways but the principle is the same. You can take a common screen from a window and spread your gravel out over it. Then take a hose and pour water over it until the water comes out from under the screen clean. Another suggestion is take a cover from a reptile tank. These have a fine screen and a plastic border to keep material from washing away. Yet another way to do this is to simply build your own rinsing apparatus using wood and screen. Make sure the screen is fine enough so that only dust washes though it.
Another method is by filling up a bucket halfway with your gravel, then filling the bucket with water . Stir up the gravel and pour out the water. you can also just let the bucket continue to fill with water and let it overflow. This can be don outside or in a sink.