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  • #16
    Re: Prime questions...

    Yes, it is safe to use Prime at the recommended dose every 48 hours in this case. The only medications that should not be mixed with reducing agents, such as Prime, are copper-based medications. Have a nice weekend!

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    • #17
      Re: Prime questions...

      Thank you very much. Great web site and great support.

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      • #18
        Re: Prime questions...

        You are very welcome! Thanks for the positive feedback!

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        • #19
          Re: stability question...

          Greetings tech support,
          Another question for you. When using your product Stability I seem to get a very high reading of Nitrite. Could you tell me if this is due to the bacteria type eing used within it or is it a feed for the bacteria used?
          Best Regards

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          • #20
            Re: Prime questions...

            Thanks for the post!

            Stability will definitely not cause a rise in nitrites, as it contains beneficial aerobic and anaerobic bacteria that consume or feed off of ammonia, nitrite, and nitrates. Are you currently cycling your tank? Do you have a biological media such as Matrix in your filter? Having a good biological media is extremely important when using Stability, because by providing the bacteria contained in Stability with a home, they will be able to successfully colonize and reproduce on the media. Stability is an extremely safe product even when overdosed.

            Hope this helps!

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            • #21
              Re: Prime questions...

              Tech guys,
              I have been running a cycle experiment with your product and using your information on this website for the new starting of an aquarium. I have been using simple sponge filters and loading teh 2 foot tank with fish and using your bacteria in three tanks and all three tanks experienced a high nitrite load within 24 hours of loading the bacteria liquid. Hence my question. As there is only your prodicts being used for these tanks I had assumed that your solution had it already in. Your repsonse seems to imply that there should be no nitrite reading at all. If this is the case then I am at a loss as to where this reading has come from? Any suggestions?
              I will check things from my side and get back to you.
              Regards

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              • #22
                Re: Prime questions...

                Hey Troglodyte,

                When used correctly, Stability can not raise your nitrites simply by adding the liquid. While it does contain some species of bacteria that can lead to a nitrite reading, the product would have to be grossly overdosed in order for this to happen.

                The nitrites you see after 24 hours are the result of the product working appropriately. After introducing the product, the bacteria began consuming ammonia ( produced by the fish), resulting in nitrites. This can happen very quickly, especially with the use of a medias such as sponge filters. These are great habitats for aerobic bacteria and can result in their rapid colonization. You should see the nitrites begin to fall as the appropriate bacteria begin to consume them. As you probably know, this will then cause a rise in your nitrates. This could be where you see a problem. The sponge filters will not be capable of supporting the anaerobic bacteria that consume nitrates. Because of this, you will need to do water changes in order to keep these within an acceptable level. WIth the use of an appropriate biological media, such as Matrix, you would be able to support the denitrifying anaerobic bacteria and water changes might not be needed as frequently.

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                • #23
                  Re: Prime questions...

                  Good Morning tech guys,
                  Not a friendly start to any comment “when used correctly”.??? As I have mentioned I used this product to your instructions from this web site. If there is anything that is incorrect in its use then it may be due to there being an issue with your product literature. Literature used was from here. Http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Stability.html , bottom paragraph on Directions to use for new aquarium.

                  http://s1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc478/troglodyte1/?action=view&current=seachemgraph001.jpg

                  This is my graph for your product used. As can be clearly seen the nitrite reading is noticeable. This can only have come from your product. As two other tanks had similar readings with different quantities of Stability used. In fairness it did appear to reduce the high reading when the dosage was increased.
                  I would like to understand why this occurred? I believe it to be as you describe due to bacteria content of the Stability. However you do not appear to believe this should happen under normal condition? This I would like to help to resolve. As I believe it will benefit both parties. Would it be possible to provide an overview of how this product works which bacteria you are using heterotrophic or chemoautotrophic or both types? (If not commercially sensitive) Then it would be possible to summarise what may have happened with this experiment. Please understand that I am looking for a plausible explanation. I am also happy to take this offline if it helps. In case of public sensitivities?
                  Thanks for your support

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Prime questions...

                    Good Morning Troglodyte,

                    I apologize if you took that statement negatively in any way, I assure you that was not my intention. The directions on the bottle are correct and adding the amount requested should not cause a direct increase in the nitrites. That said, there will be an obvious increase in nitrites as they nitrogen cycle progresses.

                    Could you please describe your methods in this experiment? It would be nice to know more about the setup and what is contained in each aquarium. Also, what is done within the aquariums on a daily basis. What type of tests are being used and any parameters other than nitrite. Really, anything that will help us understand how the experiment was set up and how it is being run.

                    Unfortunately, I am unable to tell you the types of bacteria found in this product. What information I can give about the product is on the bottle, the website and on the MSDS ( also found on the website). I apologize that this information is not very helpful for what you are doing but am afraid it is all I can provide.

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                    • #25
                      Re: Prime questions...

                      Good Morning Tech Guys,
                      First off, let me clarify an error on my part in my previous correspondence. I imply that your product was the only thing that went into the tank. This is incorrect, as you will see. I did add the fish and food in to the tank too. However what I was trying to say was that the nitrite readings still appeared to be high with this in mind. My apologies for misleading you and for any confusion this may have caused.
                      Let me explain that I am doing a new tank set up and going through initial nitrogen cycle process. I am using your products for this process Seachem Prime (as a dechlorinator) and Stability as your bacteria filter seed. The tank is 24 x 12 x12 it holds 45 ltrs. It is filtered with a basic box sponge air filter and has 4.5kg of pea gravel on the bottom with two planted bunched plants (Elodea densa) in it. It is heated with a 50w heater at 26oC. No lighting other than room and window light. The local water had a pH of 8.1-8.3, (Dissolved Oxygen was taken but don’t remember, will look up later)
                      The Prime was used to dechlorinate the water in the new tank set up and left for 24 hours. Stability was added to the sponge filter as recommended by the instructions (do not have my exact figures handy presently, will update later) and added every day for the first 7 days. The fish (a variety of 8 platys (Xiphophorous maculatus) and 8 zebra danios (Danio rerio)) were added on the same day the first solution of stability was added and readings were taken on a daily basis thereafter. (This is the readings the graphs are showing.) The fish were fed 0.1g of Tetracrisp daily.
                      Have I missed out anything obvious? If so let me know.
                      As can be seen from the graph nitrites were reading from day 3-9. Ammonia reading was as expected and is shown in the graphs at http://s1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc478/troglodyte1/
                      Hopefully this will give you all the information I have and let you draw some conclusion as to what may be happening here. Are these readings what should be expected for this period by using this product or not?
                      Thanks.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Prime questions...

                        Hi again,

                        Thank you for the clarification. We understand that you are just curious as to whether or not this increase in nitrite is expected and that you are interested in helping others to use our product more successfully. This is our primary goal as well with this forum so we thank you very much for taking interest in it and participating.

                        The increase in nitrite, as you know, is certainly expected during the cycle. The initial nitrite increase, which according to your graphs occurred consistently during days 4-8 in all experiments, was a direct result of the proliferation of nitrifying bacteria due to increase in ammonia. The ammonia spike that occurred at day 3 in all experiments triggered the nitrite increase and this is all explicable and expected.

                        However, the odd nitrite spike again at day 13 in all experiments is questionable and for this, I do not have a definitive answer. I can, however, suggest with confidence that I believe something may have gone awry with your testing on that day. I do not know what tools are being used to test, but the pure fact that the spike occurred in all experiments consistently and did not result in a gradual nitrite decrease in the subsequent days leads me to believe that it was a testing error.

                        Is that a valid possibility?

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Prime questions...

                          Good Afternoon Tech Guys,
                          Thanks for your confirmation on the initial results. Could the second spike be caused by adding Prime in a water change on day 6 and 11? And the ammonia being released on day 11 over a period of 24 hours?
                          As I am pretty sure an error in testing was not the cause for this spike. All testing was done by indicative Tetra drop test used for ammonia and nitrite on the day and frozen samples were analysed by a spectrophotometer and both results showed this second spike. This would indicate to me that it is unlikely to be an error in the testing process. Would you not agree?
                          Another question on the levels of the spikes, would you expect the addition of stability to keep the levels of nitrite down to fish acceptable parameters, ie not life threatening ? If so what level would you expect Stability to keep the level of nitrite below? Whose safety parameter levels would you use?
                          Thanks for your continued support.

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                          • #28
                            Re: Prime questions...

                            Prime should not cause any type of increase in the nitrites, so I am sure that this is not the cause on day 6 and 13. It appears on days 6 and 7 the nitrites hit their peak and begin to come down as bacteria consume them. This is expected and is part of the normal nitrogen cycle.

                            The spike on day 13 is still very unusual and I cannot think of anything that may have caused it. Was anything added to the aquarium or any maintenance done around the 11th or 12th. It seems that something happened during those two days to drop the nitrites at a more rapid rate than they were falling to begin with and then they shoot up.

                            Not really sure about the testing. There are a lot of variables that come into play with a hobby grade test kit and it is easy to make errors. The spectrophotometer, on the other hand, should be pretty accurate. That said, both indicating a spike is good reason to believe that it was not the testing.

                            Stability is in no way designed to keep nitrites, or any other compound, below any specific levels. The goal of this product is to supply the appropriate species of bacteria to establish the biological filtration and quicken the cycling process. It is normal to see ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate during this process and these compounds can become quite high depending on the situation. If cycling with fish in the aquarium, it is important to use a product like Prime to protect the fish. Prime will bind with the toxins, preventing harm. Many people prefer to do a fishless cycle and in doing so, will not need to use Prime. They simply allow the bacteria to cycle the aquarium and then, when the water parameters are safe, begin adding their fish a few at a time. Once established, the bacteria in Stability should be capable of keeping the ammonia and nitrites at zero ( when provided the appropriate environment and conditions). Some of this depends on the system, obviously, there must be enough surface area for the bacteria to colonize so an efficient bio-media is important.

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                            • #29
                              Re: Prime questions...

                              Good Morning Tech guys,
                              Sorry about the delay in responding however work load and experiment review were required to try to resolve your questions. I believe the day 13 spike may have been an anomaly in the water supply. I say this but have no scientific evidence of proof. The reason I suspect this, when I reviewed the experiment control tanks, they had a spike on the same day. As no product was used on these tanks and the only thing in common was a water change it may have to be assumed that this is where the issue comes from. However I have been unable to check this for fact. I will keep you updated when I know more.
                              The second part of the question, about keeping the levels below a certain toxic level. Let me clarify what I was asking, as it may not have been expressed by me adequately.
                              When you recommend in the sales literature that “fish can be added at any time as long as Stability dosage is maintained for 7 days” What were the assumptions that were made, for the toxic parameters levels to reach, to allow you to make this commitment to, when the fish could be added? After all I am pretty sure you would not have made recommendations on adding fish, without first ensuring that you were within the safety parameters of the quantity of the Stability product being used. I was asking for this information on these expected levels, to see if my results compared to them? If what you see in my graphs is the levels you would expect to see using your product, then I am reflecting your products expected results. This will mean I know my graphs are in line with your products expected results. If they do not reflect them, then I need to understand where the differences are? I note your comment on the use of Prime, however I could not see any reference to Prime being required for new tank set up in your literature, other than to use Prime as a dechlorinator. (Unless of course I have missed something, please correct me if I am incorrect?)
                              Hopefully I have explained it a little better for you to provide further clarifications.
                              Thanks for your time and patience as usual.
                              Ps I have taken note of your information on adequate biomedia and understand your comments and these implications. Thanks.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Prime questions...

                                Hello!

                                The reason that we say that it is okay to add fish on the first day if Stability is used is that Stability will help to prevent new tank syndrome by rapidly establishing the biofilter. For those who do not add a bacterial supplement, such as Stability, and simply allow the tank to complete the nitrogen cycle naturally, we would recommend waiting to add fish until the tank has fully cycled.

                                It is important to add Prime during the cycling process if fish are indeed present in the tank; this is simply to ensure that ammonia/nitrites are bound to the Prime and therefore detoxified until the biofilter becomes mature.

                                Your graphs certainly seem to comply with the expected results when using Stabilty, minus the obvious anomaly that we have discussed on Day 13.

                                Of course, proving the beneficial bacteria a suitable home with both internal and external bacteria will provide great long-term stability in the tank.

                                Have a wonderful evening!

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