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  • Prime questions...

    I haven't been active for quite a while.

    1)Anyway, I actually forgot how long Seachem Prime "binds" nitrates or how long nitrates can stay inert when Prime is used at standard dose?

    Hopefully it's a permanent conversion to an inert state.


    2) How much ppm (on average or estimated) of Nitrate is binded when using the 5x emergency dose of Seachem Prime?


    Thank you, your response will be most appreciated.

    Regards,
    John

  • #2
    Re: Prime questions...

    Welcome back LabTest57! It has been a while!

    1. Prime will bind ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate for 24-48 hours. At which point, if they are still present, will be released. Of course, we are more concerned with ammonia and nitrites, rather than nitrates.

    2. Unfortunately, we do not have this information. I'm sure you have read this, but in case you have not.

    Q: How does Prime make a difference in reducing Nitrates?

    A: The detoxification of nitrite and nitrate by Prime (when used at elevated levels) is not well understood from a mechanistic standpoint. The most likely explanation is that the nitrite and nitrate is removed in a manner similar to the way ammonia is removed; i.e. it is bound and held in a inert state until such time that bacteria in the biological filter are able to take a hold of it, break it apart and use it. Two other possible scenarios are reduction to nitrogen (N2) gas or conversion into a benign organic nitrogen compound.
    I wish we had some more "concrete" explanation, but the end result is the same, it does actually detoxify nitrite and nitrate. This was unexpected chemically and thus initially we were not even aware of this, however we received numerous reports from customers stating that when they overdosed with Prime they were able to reduce or eliminate the high death rates they experienced when their nitrite and nitrate levels were high. We have received enough reports to date to ensure that this is no fluke and is in fact a verifiable function of the product.

    I hope this helps!

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Prime questions...

      thanks for the information.

      More questions.....

      1) I know some water conditioners that take approximately 5 minutes to react with chlorine/chloramine and ammonia, however, I would like to know If Seachem Prime reacts to these compounds as fast or faster?

      2) Does the pH of the water, for which Prime has been added to, affect the conversion time of chlorine/chloramine to ammonia and chloride?

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Prime questions...

        You are welcome!

        1. Prime works immediately upon adding it to the water.

        2. Prime works immediately regardless of the water's pH.

        I hope this helps!

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Prime questions...

          Thank you very much for the info. and that takes care of all my questions for Prime :)

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Prime questions...

            No problem! :-)

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Prime questions...

              So why does the chemical bond that detoxifies ammonia, nitrite and nitrate fail after 24-48 hours?
              It is perhaps a moot point in an established aquarium, but can be a large issue in a newer setup.

              Would it be safe to add the recommended dose of Prime every 24 hours for an extended period?
              Are there any negatives in doing this? In such a case, will the repeatedly dosed Prime become inert in the water chemistry?

              Thanks for your attention.

              AD

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Prime questions...

                Thank you for your questions, Abbeysdad. All water conditioners only have the ability to bind to ammonia, nitrites and/or nitrates for a limited period of time; Prime actually will do this for a longer period than any other product available. You're correct; in an established tank, the beneficial bacteria will consume these things within this time period. However, in a new setup or cycling tank, we recommend dosing Prime every 48 hours to keep the ammonia/nitrites detoxified. As long as you are using Prime as directed, there is no harm in adding it this frequently for an extended period of time. Every 24 hours should not really be necessary, as it will remain active for up to 48 hours. We hope this answers your questions!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Prime questions...

                  Thank-you. I have a follow-up question...
                  Often new tank setups face an ammonia spike as the beneficial bacteria colony is not established enough to handle. It is my understanding that high levels of ammonia will inhibit beneficial bacteria growth. If Prime is used to detox the ammonia, will this be beneficial for bacteria development or should water changes be done instead to reduce the ammonia concentration.

                  Thank-you,
                  AD

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Prime questions...

                    That is a very good question. Fortunately, even when bound to Prime, the ammonia will provide enough of a food source for the beneficial bacteria to survive and reproduce. Using Prime during cycling will not starve off any bacterial colonies, and there will still be a sufficient food source.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Prime questions...

                      Hi Tech team,
                      With regards to the above question on ammonia spikes and the possibility of the inhibition of the next bacteria, to break down the nitrite to nitrate. If i have understod you correctly, you are saying it removes this the ammonia spike and will also help prevent nitrite to nitrate inhibition due to high levels of ammonia. Is this correct? Also is this supported by scientific material? Could you also tell me if any of the claims made are supported by scientifically backed information or are they claims? As I am having trouble locating any supporting information on your web site?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Prime questions...

                        Hello Troglodyte,

                        Thanks for the question. Prime converts ammonia into a complexed imidium salt. This salt is a nitrogenous compound that can still be utilized by aerobic bacteria. In the same way they consume ammonia, these bacteria consume the imidium salt and release nitrite as a byproduct. Prime will also bind with nitrite and nitrate, however, it will not prevent bacteria from consuming these compounds as well. Unfortunately, while we have researched it extensively in our laboratory, I do not have any documents that I can provide you as proof. However, if you wanted to test this, it would be very simple and could be done by treating tap water containing chloramine with Prime and adding it to an established aquarium. Also add a Seachem Ammonia Alert to give continuous free ammonia readings. Prime will break the chloramine bond, leaving behind ammonia. Unlike other water conditioners it will then bind to the ammonia, producing a non-toxic imidium salt. At this point you will see a 0.0 ammonia reading on the Ammonia Alert. After 24 hours, begin checking the Ammonia Alert every 30 minutes or so. After 24 hours, Prime will start to become inactive and if it is still binding any ammonia, it will begin to release it. If this is the case, the Ammonia Alert will begin changing color, giving you a reading for free ammonia.

                        If Prime works as we claim, which it alway does, you will not see any ammonia spikes. This is because, even when bound by Prime, the ammonia will be broken down by the biological filtration. Though not nearly as easy to test for, nitrite and nitrate are also still available for biological consumption in the aquarium even when they have been detoxified by Prime. Please let us know if you have any additional questions or if you need further clarification.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Prime questions...

                          Thanks for the response and the information provided. I appreciate that this topic has been discussed previously within this forum so I appreciate your perseverance and patience in your explanations to assist us in understanding the processes involved.
                          I would like to know if the aerobic bacteria involved in the breakdown of the imidium salt are ammonia oxidising bacteria (AOB) or Nitrite Oxidising Bacteria (NOB). As I am sure you are aware both of these bacteria take a long time to reproduce. This could mean that the use of prime will continue and need to increase for some time before increasing levels of unbound ammonia (10-14 days) or nitrite (10-30 days) are removed and a tank initially cycled. Have Seachem any experience of testing this process to conclusion and cycled a tank with the use of prime and stability to a 0mg/l reading of ammonia and nitrite? If so can you share your results?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Prime questions...

                            You are very welcome. This is always a topic of discussion amongst hobbyists and re-approaching it every so often is inevitable.

                            The imidium salt refers to the ammonia detoxification and therefore we are speaking of bacteria that oxidize ammonia in this scenario. While nitrifying bacteria, in general, reproduce more slowly than other types of bacteria, you must understand that the bacteria do not take weeks to reproduce, instead they may take up to one day in order to double their colony size. Hobbyists do not experience ammonia spikes in the aquarium because there is no consumption of ammonia occuring, but instead because the rate of ammonia production exceeds the capacity of the bacteria present at the moment. Using Prime every 24-48 hours will ensure that any new ammonia being produced is detoxified accordingly. I am sure that tests were run with standard nitrifying bacteria many years ago when this product was produced. Currently, all aquariums as Seachem have been successfully cycled using Stability (and Prime when necessary).

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Prime questions...

                              Is it safe to dose with Prime every 48 hours in an uncycled hospital tank where the fish is being treated daily with Melafix and Pimafix ? In other words will Prime interact with the medications in any way ?

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