Conflicting answers from Tech Support.....?

[Naja002]

Hi, there seems to be Conflicting answers from Seachem Tech Support on 2 Issues dealing with Purigen:

1A) Amine-based polymers ONLY ruin or otherwise Effect the regeneration of Purigen DURING the regeneration Process, OR 1B) their use in the aquarium render it unregenerateable--period. What I have found (below) on the net claims basically 1A with potential conflict. What another poster claims Seachem Telephone Tech Support says is 1B. Basically, Which is it? Can amine-based polymers be used for routine maintence or not? Here is what I have found on the net by Seachem Tech Support:

Regeneration Only:

http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=196

http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=267&highlight=purigen

http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=254&highlight=purigen

http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=248&highlight=purigen

http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=199&highlight=purigen

http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=151&highlight=purigen

In-Bewteen, Possibly Conflicting:

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/seachem/14314-stresscoat.html?highlight=purigen

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/seachem/10800-questions-about-purigen.html?highlight=purigen

Again, SUPPOSEDLY, Seachem Telephone Tech Support is telling people that amine-based polymers can NEVER be used if the person wants to Regenerate Purigen.

What is the correct answer?

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Allowing Purigen to dry out:

Throw it Away:

Post 16:
http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=199&page=2&highlight=purigen


Should Be Fine to Use:

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/seachem/33164-purigen-dried-out.html


Keep it from Drying out:

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/seachem/12590-leaving-purigen-in-bleach-mix.html?highlight=purigen


Again, What's the correct answer? If it dries out--throw it away or use it?

Many Thanx!

[Tech Support JR]

I'm not really certain where you see totally conflicting information on the links. Perhaps some of the conflict is simply in the details of the individual circumstances mentioned.

On regeneration, you use bleach to oxidize the organics from the resin. If you use a conditioner with an amine based polymer then that polymer will bind to the resin. Then when you soak the resin in bleach the bleach will potentially combine with the amine in the polymer to form chloramine which has the possibility to then be released into the tank when the Purigen is put back into service. If you use a non-amine based conditioner such as Prime this will not be of issue. Best suggestion, use a non-amine based conditioner such as Prime. Now, the problem of using an amine based polymer conditioner with Purigen only comes into play when considering regeneration. Otherwise, it is not of issue to its function other than clogging the pores that could otherwise pull oganics from the system. If you use an amine based polymer conditioner in the aquarium and want to regenerate Purigen at a later date then let the Purigen run for a while in the system to allow to polymer to degrade from the resin (perhaps a week or two but this will vary depending on the polymer). Using a product like Prime will also negate any chloramine formed during regeneration. One could just use Prime in the first place to avoid any question or doubt.

On drying Purigen out the beads do shrink and can fall through a fine mesh bag. Re-wet the resin and it will expand and will hold in the bag. As long as the dry resin has not been exposed to potentially hazardous compounds while being dry it should be okay to use again in the aquarium. If there is doubt don't use it. There was one link included where the person had used detergent and it was then recommended the Purigen be thrown out. One link mentioned some cracked or broken beads when drying. This does occur on a minimal level but most of these would rinse away upon re-weting.

Hoping this resolves your questions.

[Naja002]

Hi JR,

The Conflict comes in where SUPPOSEDLY Seachem Telephone Tech Support is telling people that CALL Seachem---to NEVER use an amine-based polymer when using Purigen, Because it then CANNOT be regenerated. Never meaning: Not in the Aquarium, Not during regeneration--Never. Is that Correct? Or Not?

The links make other possibly conflicting/confusing statements such as:

"So you are correct in your aquarium you can use anything, just not in the regeneration process."

http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=196

The only possible conflict in the links themselves is basically the first 6 links agree with the statement just quoted above and the last 2 links make statements like:

"So as long as you have not used an amine based polymer in the few days before regenerating Purigen or in the regeneration process you will be fine."

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/seachem/14314-stresscoat.html?highlight=purigen

"in the few days before regenerating" is confusing and possibly conflicting with the first quote above.


Telephone Tech (supposedly): NEVER
Online Tech-2 Links: Discontinue for a few days
Online Tech-6 links: Use Anything in the Aquarium

I hope you're seeing the confusion/conflict. Personally, I'm not believing that Seachem Telephone Tech Support is actually saying to NEVER use an amine-based polymer, but that's a claim.

So, it comes down to: Can an amine-based polymer be used in the aquarium with Purigen for routine maintenance, and then is the Purigen able to be regenerated? Its really a Yes or No question.
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Purigen Drying out:

The Seachem response was to a 2nd poster (manderx) that simply hijacked the thread with their own question. The initial poster with the detergent problem was (soundtweakers). So, the question asked by the 2nd poster (manderx) didn't involve any detergent. But I can see how that would be easily over looked and confused. NP. Got it Thanx!

http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=199&page=2&highlight=purigen

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Not trying to be a PITA here--Just looking for a straight, clear answer. "Just use Prime" isn't an answer--Its just a work-around. I have huge respect for Seachem and their products and I know a lot of others do also.

"So, it comes down to: Can an amine-based polymer be used in the aquarium with Purigen for routine maintenance, and then is the Purigen able to be regenerated? Its really a Yes or No question."

Thanx!

[Tech Support JR]

Yes you can use the amine based polymers with Purigen for maintenance. But it has consequences.

It will bind out on the resin. This will take up space on the resin which removes some of its capacity. It will bind to the resin and in the regeneration process it can produce chloramine. It may not all come off of the resin during regeneration depending on the strength and type of polymer.

So, its a "Yes" answer but then the second half of your question is not a "Yes" or "No" but a depends because it depends on the polymer used by the different companies out there.

Best bet for better use of the Purigen and its safe and effective regeneration is Prime.

[Naja002]

Thank You Very Much. My Apologies if I seemed like I was being Difficult.

Thanx Again!

[Tech Support JR]

You're quite welcome and happy to help with any confusion. We try to be very consistent in our responses. There are always slight variations in presentation from our various staff members and the given details of each question. However, we should always maintain an overall consistent response to the same material. I'm hoping we continue to score well in that regard. Sorry for any confusion.