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  #31  
Old 01-11-2012, 12:52
Troglodyte Troglodyte is offline
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Re: Prime questions...

Hi Tech Guys,
I understand what you are saying however my points are thus,
When setting up a new tank with your product instructions there is no requirements to add Prime to start a new tank cycle. (however on the prime bottle instructions it does state it may be used during new tank cycling).
Should we as fishkeepers look to promoting safe ways for the newcomer to introduce fish and make recommendations that they should follow particular processes.ie a fishless cycle do this….. a fish in cycle do this…..
If we wish to be clear, then I think for the “fish in” cycle , the instructions needs to be clear that the bacteria does not prevent the initial ammonia or nitrite spike in cycling a tank, but will help to establish the bacteria to cope with the bio load after “x” amount of days. (7 and 12 days respectively in my experiment if we ignore the anomale) To start a new tank cycle, we recommend adding 1ml of Prime per day until day “x” for fish safety.( Ie day 8 for ammonia or day 11 to include nitrite in this experiment.) Or until the bioload is maintained by the biological filter(day12 on average in this experiment) . Or until there is no ammonia/nitrite reading and a positive reading of nitrate is occurring, when testing is carried out. (Which we recommend is done on a daily basis until rising nitrates are recorded. This would then take into consideration all water chemistry environments. I think if your instructions stated this, it would be clear and reduce confusion as to what is required to progress an aquarium tank through the cycling process. Just a few of my thoughts. As I mistakenly thought that using your product prevented the ammonia and nitrite spikes due to bacterial seeding and this seed consumed the ammonia and nitrite preventing it spiking. However after reading your response I believe you only expect it to reduce the time taken for bacteria to get established in large enough numbers to cope with the loading of the fish. Have I understood you correctly? If not then please correct where there are errors.
Thanks.
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  #32  
Old 01-11-2012, 16:54
Tech Support AN's Avatar
Tech Support AN Tech Support AN is offline
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Re: Prime questions...

Yes, you have understood correctly, Troglodyte.

I understand where you are coming from in wanting to have those specific instructions on the label. However, you must keep in mind that we have a very limited amount of space to work with and are forced to put the most critical information on the label. If we had unlimited amount of space, we would be more than happy to put step by step instructions on how to cycle a tank, but unfortunately, we do not. We would like to think that most people will do a little research on keeping aquariums, getting some pre-existing knowledge on what is expected (I realize that this is not always the case). In addition, it would be extremely hard to explain what could happen in every possible scenario when cycling. As we saw in your experiment, there was an anomaly and those are bound to happen. Everyone's tank is different, therefore, Person A may be able to cycle their tank in less than 7 days, in which they may never see a rise and fall in ammonia or a rise in fall in nitrites, simply a rise in nitrates, thus never needing to add Prime. Person B, on the other hand, may see the entire nitrogen cycle, needing the addition of Prime and taking several weeks. We would than have people upset with us because their experience was not anything like what we suggested on our label.

With that being said, I can certainly see the benefit of possibly adding somewhere on the Stability label, the benefit or need for Prime during the cycling process. I would be more than happy to pass this suggestion along to the appropriate department.

I hope that my explanation makes sense and that I didn't come off as being rude, as I can clearly understand your point of view.

Let us know if you have any further questions.
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  #33  
Old 01-16-2012, 04:17
Troglodyte Troglodyte is offline
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Re: Prime questions...

Hi Tech Guys,
Thanks very much for your confirmation and no you have not come across rude in any form so do not worry about that. I like a healthy debate where we can be open and resolve questions and queries. I think that you do this very well here on this forum. A facility I think you use very well for answering the customers problems. I understand your comments made. If you are going to pass my informaiton on could you please request there to be considered a new tank cycle factsheet that encompasses the process we have discussed? As your other information datasheets are very informative, we just need one for the new tank cycle and I believe you will fill a missing part of your marketing literature. This needs to be in the same detail as we have discussed and as detailed as your existing literature for all other subjects you have. I may appear to be critical of this but your website literature is very well structured and educates the reader. I would like to see this level of intelligent literature be maintained as too many sites are dumbing down their product information.
Thanks for all your help and perseverance. I will keep in touch no doubt.
Best Regards
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  #34  
Old 01-16-2012, 09:51
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Tech Support AN Tech Support AN is offline
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Re: Prime questions...

You are very welcome!

I will absolutely pass that suggestion along! We actually have plans to come out with a brochure of sorts, that will be a guide to setting up different types of aquariums (saltwater, freshwater, brackish, planted, etc) and will contain all of the different aspects and recommendations for each (substrate, filtration, supplementation, etc.). It is still in the works, but hopefully, it will be complete sometime this year.

We truly do appreciate your feedback and the ongoing discussion that we have had in this thread. I think it will be very beneficial to anyone who reads it.

Please keep in touch and as always, let us know if you every have questions or concerns!
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  #35  
Old 02-10-2012, 01:34
LabTest57 LabTest57 is offline
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Re: Prime questions...

I believe that's the best suggestion I have heard in these forums. "Brochures for Beginners" would have been a great time saver for me, instead of reading hundreds of articles and experimenting in my lab full of aquariums lol.

There are some new Aquarium Water Conditioners on the market that do keep ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates in an inert state for an almost infinite amount of time (i say almost because the manufacturer won't disclose to me anymore info. other than what I know already). But the only problem I see with this is that when I dont make a water change in more than 5 months, a crazy algae bloom occurs and my nitrates are over 400 ppm. Had to buy the big expensive test kits to see if my readings were correct, which they were (over 400 ppm). So, I believe it's always better to use an effective and very concentrated water conditioner like Seachem Prime (which also makes it cheaper to buy by the ounce), and to never avoid water changes because algae blooms are the worst to clean up.
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  #36  
Old 02-13-2012, 09:33
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Tech Support EH Tech Support EH is offline
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Re: Prime questions...

Good point, LabTest57. As you alluded to, no ammonia/nitrite/nitrate-binding product should be used as an alternative to routine water changes:)
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