Used tank moved-cycle problem-Prime, stability, Paraguard question and more

[Milea]

Hi,
5 weeks ago I bought a used Jebo New R3126 90gal and moved it at my house. They give me the fishes and all the stuff with it.
1 Maylandia greshakei 3.25"
1 Cyphotilapia frontosa 5"
2 Labidochromis caeruleus (Electric yellow lab) 2.75"each
1 Epalzeorhynchos frenatum (red finned shark) 10cm
2 Nimbochromis venustus 2.75" & 3.5"
2 Iodotropheus sprengerae 2" each
1 synodontis petricola 3.5"
1 Blood Parrot 5"
1 Ancistrus sp albinos 3.5"

The Aquarium is probably a bit overcrowded and the 2 venustus are supposed to become bigger.

I was not experienced with these kinds of fishes and with a lot of water testing. The only test I had at this moment was a nitrite test. Then I surely made some errors in the aquarium move. 1-2 weeks after the move, a fish starts gasping at the surface and some others fishes began rubbing on rocks and gravel. I was not aware at this moment that a big change in the water hardness could cause fish rubbing. At this moment, I used, as prevention, 2 doses (2 days) of Paraguard, at the beginning. Also use Cycle and Aquaplus.

I read and learned a lot at this moment. I understood that the previous owner had wrong practices that he told me to maintain (no water parameter check, just neutralize chlorine and put tap water directly at 50% water change once a month without any water parameter check, rinse ceramic tube with tap water, etc...). He also informed me that he moved the tank 2 times in the last month and he had ick problems after the last move.

At the end of the 2nd week, I’ve bring the aquarium water to be tested at the pet store. The only problem was phosphates at 5.0ppm. I did some water change to correct that. At the 3rd week, I bought all the water test needed. I restarted the use of Paraguard because the fish rubbing trouble restarted. I started to make two 25% water change per week as suggested by someone who supposed ammonia/nitrite problem due to damaged tank cycle.

After that, I read a lot and switched to Seachem products. I put ammonia monitor and use Prime to detoxify ammonia and others. As read in another post, I use 5x doses of prime each 48 hours and stability (and the balance of cycle) each day. With that, I had no ammonia show on the monitor. But always some nitrites with the Hagen drop test. 0.2-0.3 ppm

Question 1) Is it the same thing as ammonia test result that could be false with the use of Prime as detoxify agent if made with some test kit? In other word, does the reading of 0.3ppm of nitrite is real and dangerous or not with my actual usage of Prime/Stability?

Because in the tank I have some American cichlid mix with African I’ve targeted a pH of 7.6 to stay at the lower limit range of the African and a the high limit range of the American The tap water of the previous owner was in this range and the fishes were already acclimated in this condition. I raised slowly the GH to 200, KH to 179, pH 7.6. Now, after 5 days of Paraguard treatment and these parameter adjusted to a higher level, the fish rubbing trouble disappeared.

Question 2) Do you thing I have to stop or continue Paraguard treatment? And if I continue, how many times? In a previous experience with Paraguard treatment (other aquarium) I stopped after 3 weeks of treatment without any sign of stress from the fishes... Then it could take 5gal of Paraguard to put in a 90gal tank before fishes show signs of stress... as my experience. Always not sure if the rubbing problem is due to a parasite or stress/wrong water parameter +toxic level of chemical that I was not monitoring at the begin...

Actually, the fishes are on a better condition. No rubbing on rock. The one who had a big problem of gasping at the surface returned to normal. But, sometimes I see some fish gasping few times (rarely).
I also never saw before the type of filter I now have in the Jebo R3126. An overhead basket type filter with a powerhead who deliver 900L/h. I don't have any owner manual and can't find any instructions on the web for this type of filter. I stay with the way of the previous owner did. In the bottom of the baskets a rank of ceramic cylinder horizontally positioned and over it a mechanical filtration polyfiber pad. (see pictures link below) I'm not sure but I think with the information I found on Internet, that there is 2 types of ceramic cylinder or 2 usages... as pre-filter in a canister (put vertically-flow thru the tubes) and as bio-filter like your Matrix product.

Question 3) Is the set-up of my filter correct? No need foar another product in it?

Question 4) Is there 2 types or only one ceramic tube filter media? If there are 2, then is it possible to identify the one I have? The good one for my application? Some I see on internet seem to have more porosity than mine...

Question 5) Are the ceramic cylinder placed in the right position horizontally? (They are below the water level)

Question 6) Do you think that I should have perceptible benefits with a partial or total replacement of the ceramic tubes with matrix? I clearly understand that the Matrix media is a lot superior in bacterial colonization surface, but I think that the ratio or quantity of bacteria the thank can contain is proportional to their food... ammonia and nitrites. Then I think that I could only have some benefits if actually I don't have enough bacteria surface to hold the required bacteria amount I need... But it's difficult for me to tell if I just don't have my full cycle completed (nitrites 0.2-0.3...) or if I don't have enough bacteria surface (possibly due to tank overcrowded). The bottom surface of the filter baskets totalizing 37"x6" full of ceramic tube

If you have any important suggestions about my setup, don’t hesitate to tell me; I would appreciate.

I know some people doesn’t like the fishes species mix. But they came with the tank and were together for some years...then I'll keep them. I don't find any information on the net about the type of filter I have. Probably most will tell it's not a good filtration system only because it's not like most popular canister type. But I think the flow rate is adequate (tank water filtered 3.3x/h) and normally the water is crystal clear. What is your opinion about it?

P.S. I already bought some PhosGuard (because my high level of phosphate at the beginning and because I tested a bit in the tap water) and Purigen. I don't use it actually due to the situation (5xPrime+stability). I supposed that it's a good idea to don't mix too much chemical products. If the tank is or will be overcrowded when the fishes finish growing, I suppose it will be helpful to put these products in the filtration system to reduce the frequency of water change. Your opinion? I plan to put these products in bags between the polyfiber pads and the ceramic tubes (then over the water level).

I know it's a lot of questions and be sure your help will be very appreciated.

Photo links of the filter:
http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd387/Landregrrrrrr/DSC00686.jpg
http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd387/Landregrrrrrr/DSC00690.jpg
http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd387/Landregrrrrrr/DSC00688.jpg
http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd387/Landregrrrrrr/DSC00689.jpg
http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd387/Landregrrrrrr/DSC00681.jpg

Tank view:
http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd387/Landregrrrrrr/DSC00677.jpg

A short video link that shows the scrubbing and gasping trouble:
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B7A8hWsdLqowZDYxYzcwOGItZjE0Yi00MTFjLTliOTctZjcxY2RhNDgzZTlh

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B7A8hWsdLqowYTA0Y2ZjMGQtYzA4MC00NjNkLWI3ZmUtNWMyZDFhYjI0OGY4

Thanks

[Tech Support AN]

Thanks for the post! It seems you have a good understanding of aquariums and what makes them successful! I will try to address your questions in the order they were asked for sake of clarity.

1. Unfortunately, there is not a test kit on the market that can distinguish between toxic nitrites/nitrates and the non-toxic, bound form in the presence of Prime. In other words, the reading that you are getting with your test kit is real, however, in the presence of Prime they are detoxified and your fish are safe from any toxicity.

2. We typically recommend treating for parasites for a minimum of three weeks. This will ensure that you are completely eradicating the parasite in all stages of their life cycle. Rubbing and scratching is almost always indicative of a parasite and should be treated accordingly.

3. The set-up seems fine, except I did not see any kind of chemical filtration (carbon, Purigen, etc). This type of filtration is very important for removal of waste organics. If these things are able to build up in the system, you may begin seeing algae issues, along with nitrate and phosphate issues. It is just something to keep in mind for the future.

4. The ones that are in your tank are ceramic noodles, which are fairly porous and good for biological filtration (removal of ammonia, nitrite, nitrate). If it were my tank, I would certainly add some Matrix in addition to the noodles, as the Matrix is proven to be much more porous. :-)

5. The positioning of the noodles is fine, as long as they remain below the water line and water is able to flow through them.

6. In my opinion, the more biological media you have the better off you will be. There is no such thing as too much biological media. So, I would recommend adding the Matrix in addition to what you already have, if room permits of course.

Honestly, the set up looks great and easy to manage. Really, it is based on the needs of your tank, whether you need additional filtration. After you have fully cycled, I would recommend placing the Purigen into your filter. This is actually one of my favorite products, because it does such a great job at removing nitrogenous waste and creating crystal clear water. Lastly, I would recommend routine water changes, weekly or biweekly, especially since you have a heavily populated tank with Cichilds.

I hope this info helps. Let us know if you need any further assistance.

[Milea]

Thanks a lot for the outstanding clear and fast answers!

I'll add 1L of matrix in the filtration system.

Some little interrogation remaining:
-Do you think the tank is actually overcrowded? Or will it be when the 2 venustus will be larger? (I think they will come as large as the Frontosa and the Parrot)
-What's your recommendation for the Purigen and PhosGuard position in the filter? Ok as I plan between the polyfiber pads and the ceramic tubes (then over the water level). Or is it better to remove a layer of ceramic tubes and place them under the water level? (I have 2 smaller baskets in the filter sized nearly the resin bag where I can remove the tubes and place the bags if it's better to place them under the water level)
-Should I wait the fully establish cycle to add Purigen and PhosGuard? Or I must add it now within the Prime/Stability treatment?

Thanks a lot again.

[Milea]

I forget a precision for the last question:
-Should I wait the fully establish cycle to add Purigen and PhosGuard? Or I must add it now within the Prime/Stability treatment? <<And the Paraguard treatment that I'll continue for 2-3 weeks as your recommendation>>

And a new one:
At the end of the Paraguard treatment, do you recommand to remove the medication fast with activated carbon or let the concentration lower slowly with the weekly or bi-weekly water change?

Thanks

[Tech Support AN]

You are very welcome and we are glad you will be implementing the Matrix!

I wouldn't really say that it is overcrowded, necessarily, however, Cichlids have the tendency to produce more waste than other fish and like you mentioned, some will get larger. I think that placing the Phosguard and Purigen under the water level is a better, if possible. I would wait until you have fully cycled to implement the Purigen and Phosguard. If your fish are showing signs of infection bacterial, fungal, or parasitic, than you should treat accordingly. For fungal or bacterial infections, treat with Paraguard daily until the symptoms have disappeared. For parasitic infections, treat for a minimum of three weeks in order to eradicate the parasites fully. The Paraguard only remains active for 24 hours, at which point it is dissipated from the system, so carbon would not be necessary.

Let us know if you need further assistance.

[Milea]

My last questions is about water changes for the future (when the cycle will be fully establish and the Paraguard treatment complete), and with my particular situation in mind (kind of fish & overcrowded).

1) What's your recommendation for the tank gravel cleaning and the filter media cleaning?
(Hope that with the Purigen and PhosGuard add in the filtration I'll have to do water change bi-weekly but I can't know for now. Then if you could tell me your recommendation for the weekly and bi-weekly options). I've read a lot on the subject but I don't read the same things on each sites... I'm just not sure if it's not too much for the biofilter to clean on the same water change half the filter media (polyfiber pads) and half the gravel at the same time.

For the Purigen and Phosguard replacement/renew I'm OK. I already read about it in other post here and the product direction are very clear.

For now, within the paraguard treatment and to help the cycle establishment, I plan to never clean the filter and gravel for the next month at least or until the cycle fully establish.
2) Am I in the right way?

[Tech Support AN]

1. At every water change, I would recommend siphoning the gravel. In my opinion, it is not a good idea to clean your biological media, as this is where all of the beneficial bacteria live and if you clean it out, there is potential for some of those colonies to be removed. This can cause problems such as ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate spikes. I would only clean the bio-media if you notice that it is getting detritus build up on the outer surface. With the polyfiber pads, I would recommend cleaning them as needed. Since their purpose is to remove undissolved particulates from the water column, they will get clogged very easily. It is important to maintain a clean mechanical filter (polyfiber pads) in order for all of the subsequent medias to work more efficiently.

2. You are on the right track! Keep in mind that if you are trying to cycle the tank, it may be better to hold off on the Paraguard, if possible, at least until you have cycled. All of our medications have a very minimal impact on the biological filter, however, it is still possible for some of the beneficial bacterial colonies to become compromised, especially if they have not fully established themselves yet.

[Milea]

Hi, I've complete the Paraguard Treatement this weekend and as I always read 0.2-0.3 ppm of Nitrites you're surely right when you said that the cycle is not completely established within the Paraguard treatment...
I keep en eye on the water parameter until the cycle will be fully establish.

A question:
For my "particular" mix of fish I try to keep a pH of 7.6-7.8 that is not I think a normal target. The Malawi/Victoria buffer should maintain between 7.8-8.4. And that's a bit too high for some of my fish... What kind of pH Buffer mix do you recommend me to keep this pH target?

[Tech Support MS]

Malawi buffer is probably still the best buffer for your situation. You can adjust the dose down some to help target that lower pH. Maybe try a half dose and see where that gets you. You can then adjust up or down to reach your desired pH.

[Milea]

Some new questions appear:
1) I finally have a cycled tank as I read 0.0 ammonia and 0.0 Nitrites. I make weekly 20% water change and clean half the gravel at the same time. I think I don't understand, I don't seem to have Nitrates accumulation... My drop test always shows very low in the color chart (±0.0-1.0) since the day I bought the test... Is that possible? Is my drop test defective or is it possible I may have some bacteria that eat the Nitrates? (From what I read on the internet I think this is impossible without special equipments...Denitrator)
Anyway, since my tank seems to be cycled I put Purigen and Phosguard in the filter yesterday and clean the Polyfiber filter pads.

2) In my previous posts you can see my "special" fish mix... It happened 2-3 times that I saw the rainbow shark with some damages on its tail. Few days after it healed. But yesterday I notice that it has more damages on its tail and fins... And I don't know if it's the result of some other fish aggression or if its "fin & tail rot"? (Or "fin & tail rot" resulting of too much aggression or any kind of stress...) As I can see when I'm present and the tank lights on, all the other cichlids are not aggressive against the shark. If they are so, it's by night or when the lights are off…
Here are 2 pictures of my rainbow shark fins:
http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd387/Landregrrrrrr/DSC00760.jpg
http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd387/Landregrrrrrr/DSC00756.jpg

Other fish don't have any problem with their fins.

Actual water conditions (juste before I put the Purigen-Phosguard):
pH 7.2
GH 11
KH 8
Ammoniac 0.0
Nitrites 0.0-0.1
Nitrates 1.0
Phosphates 2.0

What do you suggest about that? Do you think “Stress Guard” should be use?

3) Sometimes I still can see some fish rubbing on rocks… As you can read in my post history, I finished a 3 weeks Paraguard treatment before the thank cycle establishment… Is it possible that a parasite can be resistant to a 3 weeks Paraguard treatment? (The previous tank/fish owner told me they sometimes rub on rock. He think that's not a big problem and he suggest me not to worry about that...) What's your opinion about that?

Other changes:
The 2 Nimbochromis venustus grow fast and are now 3.25" and 4.25"
And I have 2 new little occupants still alive:
http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd387/Landregrrrrrr/DSC00700.jpg
http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd387/Landregrrrrrr/DSC00701.jpg
Probably 2 Iodotropheus sprengerae.